Matthew McGregor-Mento: Do you remember the first time you heard about Bob Simmons?

Richard Kenvin: Yeah, well, coming from San Diego and Windansea, I heard about Simmons all my life. But everything had to do with him as a kind of mythical figure who had drowned in an underwater cave, at a wave I liked to surf that had been named after him. Then as a teenager I washed dishes at the Chart House Restaurant, and I saw one of his actual boards there on the wall. This was in the late 70s, when single fins were the dominant board, and that Simmons board just looked so foreign. I couldn’t even piece it together as being a surfboard that you rode. In fact, it wasn’t until I started getting into fishes that I understood that Simmons’ design would work — and then I began to really want to ride one of his boards. John Elwell had already made a replica that nobody had ridden, and he told me that I could ride it. And as soon as I did, I thought, “This is crazy,” these boards feel so much like a fish and like what is going on in modern surfboard design, like in a thruster or a tri-fin, where you’re driving off those fins rail-to-rail. We started experimenting with boards that were smaller versions of the pure Simmons planing hull, based on stories we’d heard about him making smaller boards, and kind of just went from there, utilizing the design he had come up with — the planing hull — all those years ago.

MM: When did you first get the idea for the film Hydrodynamica? Was there a moment when it suddenly all clicked?

RK: Yeah, well, it was percolating for a long time. Initially, it was all about the fish and the kneeboarders at Big Rock. In December 2002 I rode a fish for the first time in twenty-five years and that’s when it really clicked: that there was a history here that I wanted to look into and a story I wanted to tell. But the thing that really clinched it, though — and this is very random — was Reno Abellira showing up out of the blue at Windansea. I think he was on the lam or something from Hawaii. I’d never met Reno but he was like one of my childhood heroes. My brother always emulated his surfing style and he was this huge figure to us. And Reno ended up moving into my brother’s spare bedroom in his house in Claremont. So those two guys were suddenly living together and I took this as a major sign — like, okay, that’s way too freaky: Reno’s living with my brother. I had already decided to start documenting the history I was interested in and I knew that I wanted to interview people. And Reno had been on the top of my list. He grew up riding and making paipos. He made the shortboard that had a huge influence on Mark Richards and the board that he rode in, I think, the 1976 Coke contest in Australia. And he turned out to be the first person I interviewed. I thought it would take me years to get to him. So, it really all started with Reno Abellira.

MM: Over the last ten years you’ve explored many boards. Can you tell us about them and how you’ve chosen to investigate the boards that you have?

RK: Basically, there’s a family of boards — what I refer to as planing totems — that are related to each other and can all be traced back to ancient or semi-ancient Hawaiian boards: finless, widetail, super thin and straight railed. The alaias at the Bishop Museum in Honolulu are a good example. And then you have the dual-fin planing hull that Simmons developed in the 1950s, and, still later, the Steve Lis fish. All of these boards are going to work differently but they all belong to the same family. They’re also going to do a lot of the same things. And they’re going to go really fast. From my perspective, status quo boards like the classic D-fin longboard are not part of that history. There are boards that fit in with the family and there are other boards that don’t. Together, they emerge as a parallel history and a parallel universe of surfing and board design. I was also really interested in how these boards relate to early skateboarding and snowboarding.

MM: Film is a pretty expensive endeavor. It’s time consuming and difficult. What inspired you to make a film in the first place, and did you have any formal training or prior experience?

RK: I didn’t have any experience. In some ways that may have helped, since I didn’t have any rigid notions about writing a script or having a storyboard. I just thought I’d go out and shoot it. And in any case, everything was continually changing and expanding, which I accepted. It just became the project that it is, or the thing that it is. We have a ton of footage, but we’ve also had a lot of financial setbacks. And since I want to keep this project independent, this made getting the film finished really difficult. But it’s coming along. And it’s much more important to me that the film does the material justice instead of feeling like it must be finished simply to get it out there. For me, it’s been a lot more than the film for a long time.

MM: It seems like the project has developed into something else, something beyond the film. It’s almost like a movement now. When does the “process” take precedence over the finished product, and do you think that’s what happened with this film?

RK: Yeah, I think the process took over a long time ago (laughs), maybe from the very beginning. There’s a lot of pressure to have a finished film, and [I put much of that pressure on] myself. But there’s also a lot of external pressure. I think what you said about the process overtaking the finished film, that’s sort of the truth of the matter. And then we had a lot of things happen that meant we just practically couldn’t finish it, due to financial problems or to my editor being diagnosed with colon cancer. But in hindsight I’m really glad that I didn’t finish it in 2005 or 2006, or whenever. The project has taken on a life of its own and I’ve had to accept that.

We just put on an exhibition here at the Loft in San Diego, Hydrodynamica: Remember the Future, that was part of the Getty Research Institute’s Pacific Standard Time. We exhibited boards chronologically, in a linear way, where their design development would make sense to people from different walks of life, even people who don’t surf. And it’s a really fascinating story, the story of Simmons and all these characters who have a connection to this project. The exhibition kept me occupied for the last four months. But it also opened all kinds of doors, and I see now how this could take shape as a traveling exhibition, accompanied by the finished film and a book. On the other hand, you know, none of us has any money. I’m always behind on my rent — I am right now — that sort of thing. We’re all just sort of working, living month to month, and we’re just trying to keep going forward, hoping to find a way to get it underwritten. Maybe I’ll bootstrap my way out of it. But funding would buy us time, the ability to focus and finish editing the film. I mean, my G5, both of my editing computers, are now dead. My Canon xl h1 camera has suffered saltwater corrosion and would cost $1,400 to get fixed — and I don’t have the money right now, you know what I mean? So on that level, we’re dealing with all these setbacks.

But at the same time I’ve got this exhibition downstairs that’s pretty amazing and getting attention from cultural organizations like the Reina Sofia Museum in Spain, and the Getty Research Institute in Los Angeles, and the Mingei International Museum here in San Diego. I don’t know where any of this is gonna lead, but I’m hoping to find the right sort of institutional help to bring it all home.

MM: What happens now?

RK: We’re just entering the next phase, really trying to bring it home. I have such good rapport right now with the Mingei, and I want to meet with the Getty, you know, to see if they can help facilitate this. I have no issues at all with the book or the film being cosponsored by someone, one of these cultural institutions, because I think that’s really where it belongs. That’s where it’s going to do the most good, where it’s going to enlighten and entertain and educate the most people. As soon as you approach the surf industry and that whole world, that’s where it just gets really weird and political. So I kinda want to come about this from another angle. For instance, I’ve really enjoyed the little slide show presentations that I’ve done with smash in New York a couple times now. That’s a really enjoyable way of doing things, and that’s basically how we have done things. We do, though, need money and support to bring it home, for sure. If there was grant money or other funding, that would be ideal.

MM: That kind of institutional affiliation and support would obviously be very helpful.

RK: We’ve got all of these Simmons boards and all this Super 8 footage that was shot in the 60s and 70s rotting away in people’s garages here in San Diego. This is really valuable material and it all needs to be catalogued, according to museum standards, and preserved. And it’s not just dead stuff — it’s a really interesting story that appeals, I think, to a lot of different age groups and different people, and with the right support from the right cultural institutions, we could do this properly.

MM: Remember the Future really underscored the link between surfing and art and design in postwar Southern California. Can you tell us more about this connection?

RK: Well, Remember the Future was part of Pacific Standard Time, the enormously ambitious Getty-organized group of exhibitions that explored art, design, architecture, cultural movements, etc., in Southern California between 1945 and 1980. Simmons and Lis fit right into this narrative. Simmons, for one, was using the same materials as LA artists like Ken Price. He was well known to those guys, a big mythical figure. As a personality, he was a legendary figure. Simmons had a huge influence on art, design and lifestyle, apart from surfing, throughout this period. In 200 years, if the human race survives, historians looking back on Southern California during this moment are not going to be interested in professional football teams or what the Lakers were doing — they’re gonna be looking at surfing and skateboarding and the film industry. In a way, Pacific Standard Time really is LA reaching its hand up where you are — in New York’s shadow — and saying, all this stuff happened here! Because they’re completely insecure and in the shadow of the New York art world. And I think that’s sort of the main reason that Pacific Standard Time was conceived, it was a way of showing what was happening here culturally.

MM: Let’s talk about Ryan Burch and Lucas Dirkse. How and when did they get involved? And how old were they?

RK: I first met Lucas on the beach at Windansea. He was maybe eleven and he showed up with his mom. He was a really good natural surfer, and he just stood out. He was interested in riding lots of different boards, and he was a local kid, so I started filming him a lot. And then I met Ryan Burch through Lucas about three years ago. It was the perfect time. Ryan was right there. We all seemed to be at the same place — Ryan and Lucas and myself — with regard to everything that was progressing. Ryan was really ready for it. They both were. I’d been riding all these boards and couldn’t, obviously, document my own surfing. So when Ryan turned up it was the right time. He and Lucas were really open and curious and enthusiastic about riding planing hulls. Ryan was already pretty well down the road riding alaias — he’s an amazing alaia surfer, probably the best I’ve ever seen, just incredible. That kid is just amazing, you know. He’s a virtuoso. They both had this really great thing going on, just having fun and feeding off each other’s energy and making boards and doing all this stuff. Then they really took off with the whole Lindsay Lord square foam pieces, which are such a central part of the Simmons story. When they started riding the Lord boards, it was such a huge deal. Things like that really convinced me that the process — just as you were were saying — needed to unfold at its own pace. And that’s still happening, it’s not done yet. There’s a whole new burst of energy right now, you know, that’s bringing all this stuff into focus in this really crazy, dynamic way. And so, yeah, I just kinda went along and documented that and tried to hang out and encourage those guys whenever I could, which made me surf less. But filming them and what they were doing and everything — to me — it was every bit as fun as actually surfing.

MM: It’s interesting, because in many ways you’re this connecting point from the Simmons ideas to this next generation, people like Lucas and Ryan and Cyrus [Sutton, of Korduroy.tv]. Everyone seems to be feeding off that energy that you’re bringing forward from the past.

RK: Yeah. Well, part of it’s from Tyler Warren and even Andrew Kidman and other people — I feed off their energies, too. It inspires me. But I think a lot of it is that thing that David Nuuhiwa said about fish boards, “Shit, it took seven years out of my life!” It’s just those feelings when you get on them as a surfer, these different boards that have that freedom. Or look at Derek Hynd with his finless, that sort of stuff. We were all getting doses of the same stuff, together. And when you know a little bit about what’s behind it, the history behind it, it makes it that much more interesting. And then Carl Ekstrom got really involved over the last five years or so, and that was really good for guys like Daniel and Ryan. Here’s Carl, this super master craftsman that’s done a lot of things and kinda has a really interesting perspective on everything, and really nurtures those guys and encourages them — sort of grandfathers them.

MM: Ryan Burch and Daniel Thomson’s boards seem to have thrown out the rule book on surfboard design, for me. I mean, just looking at them it’s a whole different approach. It’s startling and amazing.

RK: Ryan and Daniel are sort of different characters. They’re similar but they’re also different. Ryan’s off doing his own thing, doing what he’s doing, he just wants to make boards and surf. He got a sort of free surfer assistance from Volcom which just allows him to do what he’s doing. Daniel’s had this resurgence of investigation into Simmons and going deeper into the Lindsay Lord report and other ideas about Simmons that even we weren’t really thinking about, and taking it to this other level. I’m writing a piece on that for The Surfer’s Journal now, that’s what I’m working on. And Kolohe Andino and Tom Curren are asking Daniel for boards, and he’s making them boards. I would like to see the best surfers in the world riding some of the boards that these guys Daniel and Ryan are creating, because I think the boards work so well that there’s gonna be a boost in the style and performance of surfing on the highest levels. And so when Kolohe goes and gets one I’m just kind of sitting back thinking, I just want to know the feedback. I’d like to see footage of him surfing it. When Daniel made the one for Tom, it’s a 5’1,” and Tom was ripping on it. There’s footage of him on the internet — he loves the board. I’m looking at it like, “oh Tom you gotta get a 5’6,” one that’s a little longer,” that’s what I’m thinking. I wanna see that.

MM: Like you were saying, it’s that lineage — you want to see that line continue — and this is the way that it can break out and explode. If it can hit those more recognized surfers, it has a chance of not just being this thing for the folks on the fringe, but it can really permeate and break out.

RK: I think that would be good, because it’s a positive thing, just having some of these concepts that these guys are working on get wider attention because I’m a fan of performance surfing. I like to see really state-of-the-art surfing or skating and watch it and just be blown away by it. Anything that can make the links smoother or faster and more stylish is something that appeals to me. And I think that the boards those guys are making do that. I watched footage of Ryan and Daniel surfing their boards — it’s pretty amazing. There’s a noticeable difference in the flow, how much speed they have and how quickly they’re able to link things. They’ll do an air and not lose any speed which is a lot more like skating. Doing an air—it’s an insane air—reverse, or with everything in it, and then when it’s landed there’s this crazy recovery period and the board loses all its speed. A whole bunch of pumps have to be done at the bottom of the wave. Or you’re stuck in [the wave], you know what I mean? They’re doing one where it just looks more and more like they’re skating, like they’re rolling. I like that.

MM: Your knowledge of surfing is obviously pretty exhaustive. What role have surf films played in that?

RK: Surf films, when I was a kid, had a huge influence because they just completely blew my mind, and these were films like Cosmic Children and Pacific Vibrations and Five Summer Stories, those kind of films. Morning of the Earth. So I got to see all those when I was like ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen. And just to see the performance level, it was just mind blowing. In recent years, I don’t know, as far as with Hydrodynamica I’m mostly looking for vintage footage that relates to the project, for the most part. But I did find an amazing lost film that was made in 1964 that I’m not really gonna talk about right now because I still haven’t let it out as a documentary that has Simmons in it. But otherwise, there’s lots of people making amazing work. Jack McCoy has come over here quite a few times and made the effort to spend time with me and things like that, so I really admire guys like him who just are such gnarly cinematographers and so skilled at what they do as far as being able to document epic surfing and epic waves in a beautiful way. And Andrew Kidman with his sensibilities, Patrick [Trefz]. There’s a lot of good stuff going on out there right now. Cyrus [Sutton] is a really talented filmmaker. But yeah, the films that I see right now aren’t so much influencing Hydrodynamica per se, but I really admire the cinematics and editing and stuff like that, that’s on a much higher level than I’m capable of. Ryan [Field, cinematographer and photographer of Hydrodynamica] and Sean [Shafer, editor of Hydrodynamica] and the guys I work with are on that level, but I’m not. I just take the camera and document.

MM: What are some of the more notable experiences you’ve had working on Hydrodynamica over the last ten years? The highlights.

RK: Oh, just all the boards I was able to ride along the way have personally, as a surfer, been some of the big milestones. Each one of them just gave me so much inspiration. Steve Lis made me two custom 5’6” classic fish in 2004 and 2005 that were kinda the pure ultimate fish board to me. And the boards that Skip Frye made were amazing. And then the asymmetric boards that Carl Ekstrom made were really inspirational, the alaia remakes by John Wegner, the boards that Daniel has made me and Ryan Burch has made me … the experience of surfing all those is just amazing stuff. And then, being able to interact with a lot of different surfers from all over the world has been amazing. They got excited by a lot of this stuff, and I was able to bounce ideas off them and hang out with them and see where they took things. Being accepted by this big cultural institution and being part of this thing that the Getty put on — that’s a milestone to me because it’s bringing it that much closer to where I want it to be. And then, just seeing where other guys are taking it, whether it’s Ryan Burch or Daniel or Andrew Kidman or whoever. But it would be nice to have some financial stability and things like that. It’s been a long time.

MM: Where would you like to see the project in ten years?

RK: In ten years I’d like to see [the] film long done, the book that goes along with it long done and this collection of boards and artifacts and film clips and stuff catalogued. And when appropriate, housed safely in a good cultural institution where it could be accessible to the public either on exhibit or for research or whatever, but also preserved in the right context. And I’d like to just be surfing somewhere. With warm water and offshore winds.

This story originally appeared in WAX Issue 1.